Ha! I was waiting for when you'd eventually take this one on. The funny part is, I agree with you on nearly everything.
I also have to laugh that this whole argument is happening almost 2,300 years after Epicurus died. I wonder if he'd be glad to see people still having this discussion.
I also wonder if suspension of judgment can become its own source of confusion rather than a cure for it. If ataraxia is the goal, does constantly withholding judgment eventually turn into its own unsettled state, maybe a quieter one, but still unsettled.
My honest hang up with modern Epicureanism, and maybe you can talk me out of this, is how often it gets used as a coat of paint for people's existing politics. A lot of contemporary Epicurean writing leans hard into a specific ideological direction and calls it Epicurean, and it makes me wonder how much of that is actually Epicurus versus people finding a philosophical justification for views they already held. I really don't know how to get past that.
But again, I agree with the kenai doxai list - fearing death is bad, thinking wealth, power, or fame will make you happy is bad. I also agree that the traditional virtues aren't inherently good, only instrumentally so.
And I wholeheartedly agree with the avoid politics line. I can see the connection to dogmatism, people screaming and shouting about things they're not actually sure of because they've decided to follow the mob. I've heard that line attributed to a lot of people, but it traces back to Epicurus through Diogenes Laertius and Plutarch's essay on the subject, lathe biosas, so I'm still not sure who said it first in any real sense.
All that said, I wonder if these two schools are even closer than I originally thought.
Like I've always said - show me where I'm wrong and I'll change my position.
It sounds to me like your main issue with modern Epicureanism has a simple solution: don't read whomever you find annoying! I can theoretically understand your objection to modern ideologies impinging on the ancient philosophy, but I honestly don't know what contemporary Epicurean writing you're referring to, because I don't really read any. Just stick to books by dead people and Untroubled, and you should be fine!
Ha! I was waiting for when you'd eventually take this one on. The funny part is, I agree with you on nearly everything.
I also have to laugh that this whole argument is happening almost 2,300 years after Epicurus died. I wonder if he'd be glad to see people still having this discussion.
I also wonder if suspension of judgment can become its own source of confusion rather than a cure for it. If ataraxia is the goal, does constantly withholding judgment eventually turn into its own unsettled state, maybe a quieter one, but still unsettled.
My honest hang up with modern Epicureanism, and maybe you can talk me out of this, is how often it gets used as a coat of paint for people's existing politics. A lot of contemporary Epicurean writing leans hard into a specific ideological direction and calls it Epicurean, and it makes me wonder how much of that is actually Epicurus versus people finding a philosophical justification for views they already held. I really don't know how to get past that.
But again, I agree with the kenai doxai list - fearing death is bad, thinking wealth, power, or fame will make you happy is bad. I also agree that the traditional virtues aren't inherently good, only instrumentally so.
And I wholeheartedly agree with the avoid politics line. I can see the connection to dogmatism, people screaming and shouting about things they're not actually sure of because they've decided to follow the mob. I've heard that line attributed to a lot of people, but it traces back to Epicurus through Diogenes Laertius and Plutarch's essay on the subject, lathe biosas, so I'm still not sure who said it first in any real sense.
All that said, I wonder if these two schools are even closer than I originally thought.
Like I've always said - show me where I'm wrong and I'll change my position.
It sounds to me like your main issue with modern Epicureanism has a simple solution: don't read whomever you find annoying! I can theoretically understand your objection to modern ideologies impinging on the ancient philosophy, but I honestly don't know what contemporary Epicurean writing you're referring to, because I don't really read any. Just stick to books by dead people and Untroubled, and you should be fine!
"don't read whomever you find annoying!"
Also good life advice in general, not just for reading lol.
:) Good advice.